Ep. 70: Embracing the Modern Band Movement, with Tom Zlabinger

Garrett: Tom Slabinger, welcome to the show. How you doing?

Tom: I’m well, thanks for having me.

Garrett: It’s a pleasure meeting you virtually. We’ve talked a little bit offline because we have some similar interests. I arrange popular music for show choirs. So, I’m very much in a similar space to you, but you’re more focused on the modern band movement. So, why don’t we start there? What is modern band?

Tom: Oh, modern band is a newish term. I say newish because it’s been around since oh, about 2012. It came out of the whole little kids rock movement co-founded by David Wish who who wanted to start popular music programs for K through 12 kids. Originally, he was in LA, but now it’s a national movement. And that term modern band encompasses so many things. It’s not just only rock and pop, but it’s also hip-hop or country or mariachi. The term got this idea of popular music, a seat at the table, right next to concert band, choir, and orchestra, and jazz band. So, it’s a it’s a very inclusive term that is young, but it’s sure taken off.

Garrett: Is that part of the same movement, or is is modern brand something more specific.

Tom: Modern band is an ensemble by name, but it it’s very porous. It’s very open. I would call it more of an ethos than anything. Teaching students music they want to learn, music that they know that is familiar to them. I was in this very schizophrenic situation where I was listening to one music at home and learning another music in my piano lessons and later in college, which seems schizophrenic now, but in 2026, in the rearview mirror. I firmly believe if you can’t see it, you can’t be it. And so I went into the whole jazz education route. I got a degree in jazz performance here in New York City. I got the jazz job and then things sort of changed right before CO that I noticed my students were into other things and during CO I sort of reassessed things what I wanted to do with my career. After CO I fell into the whole modern band/popular music education world. So It’s modern band is the name for the ensemble, but it embodies a whole ethos of how do we get more popular music at the table? How do we teach it?

Garrett: Well, and when you say ensemble, we’re primarily talking about rhythm section, right?

Tom: Yes. Guitar, bass, drum, keys, voices, and then there can be horns, there could be DJs, there could be a harp or whatever you want. But yes, it would be rhythm section bass music.

Garrett: Yeah, I agree with the premise because I see a lot of modern band stuff popping up here in Tennessee as well. I think the whole movement is sort of catching on. Would you say that it is designed to be taken into the classroom or is it more of an afterchool type program?

Tom: We’ve seen both. We’ve seen it as an after school and we’ve also seen it as the ensemble or an additional ensemble. It it really depends on your situation. It really depends on what support you have, what interest you have, but it can go either way. It can be an after school guitar class or it can be your main thing. Are there’s some schools that have three and four pants. So, it really depends on your situation.

Garrett: Well, you’d have to, right? I mean, because sort of by definition, you only have one drummer, one I mean, I guess you have more guitar players, right? But there’s certain instruments that at a certain point you would need to split it off and have a second ensemble, right?

Tom: And I’ve seen also situations where you have 30 students in an ensemble and you break it up if you have the space to three and four bands that rehearse at the same time. And then the director becomes more of a facilitator than a director. And that’s all That’s part of the modern band ethos of instead of being the sage on the stage, it’s more of the guide on the side. You hear that phrase a lot in that you’re more of a like a coach on the sidelines saying go team. Not that you don’t share your expertise or you know veto things or whatever, right? It’s sort of the balance, but that’s why things like the modern band summit and the APME conferences are so important because this is such a new pedagogy.

Garrett: Now, would you consider ensembles that perform arrangements of popular music. Would you consider that as being part of the same bucket? You know, show choirs, ac capella groups, marching bands, or is that kind of not what you’re going for?

Tom: In my heart of hearts, whenever a student gets to play a song that he or she loves, you know, whether it’s Wicked or whatever, you know, just something that’s really deep in their heart. For me personally, I I’d love to see it on the field with the marching band. I love it when the the jazz band does a cover. You know, we it back to the ethos idea of modern band. We want students to feel that their musical history/culture is is validated and seen, you know, and so let’s say you’re in a situation like I was for a long time conducting big bands. We would have a very traditional show in the fall where we do the Dizzy Gillespie Duke Ellington and then the spring we would do the Michael Jackson tribute or something or the Santana tribute. Would I call that modern band? No. But does it align with what modern band is trying to do? Yes. As modern band matures and as as we all get older and and and and and we’re more inclusive and pluralistic and things, I think when we realize let’s bring in more that that will increase student engagement, right? That’ll get the students really psyched. Whether that is, you know, a big band playing Stevie Wonder or a guitar class playing a two chord tune or something, it it’s it’s all kind of the same stuff in some way. in that we’re we’re we’re getting students to make music that they want that is more student centric and meeting them where they are wherever they are.

Garrett: So if I’m a K12 music educator and I am listening to this and I’m vibing with what you’re saying and I want to bring in modern band into my program, how do I do it?

Tom: I the first thing I would do is get in touch with Music Will, which is the new name of the organization that many folks know formerly as Little Kids Rock. They have such wonder wonderful resources on their website and they do PDs all over the country all the time. And if you really want a shot in the arm, you should come to the Modern Band Summit in July in Colorado. That’s where I I go I’ve gone every year since 22 and I’m constantly learning and meeting new people and it gets bigger every year. And this year they’ve waved the registration so it’s cost zero dollars. You just have to pay for room and travel. So I I I would just reach out I would go to the modern band summit. I would talk to f folks like me or other, you know, some of the the heavy hitters like David Wish and Brian Powell and Raina Mack and all these folks that that are so approachable. Just start a conversation and you know I but number thing number one is is reach out to music well and let them know you’re interested and go to a PD.

Garrett: Let’s shift gears and talk about the charts that you’ve been making because I think this is a really unique approach or maybe it’s explain your process to me.

Tom: I started playing piano at 3 years old and so I I’ve been able to read standard notation, traditional notation all my life. You know, it’s it’s it’s I’ve always been a strong reader no matter what instrument I was playing. And that’s always been an advantage for me. But I remember being interested in rock and pop as as a teenager, picking up the guitar and looking at this very different stuff, right? The piano vocal books that you would be gifted. Oh, you want to play some Here you go. Here’s a piano vocal. That was not what’s on the record. That does not what Revolver sounds like. And and but then I started noting noticing the chords up above. And I thought, okay, the chords are more that’s more information than actually this piano vocal stuff. And then while I was studying music in in Minneapolis, I was introduced to Nashville numbers and my whole brain just exploded because I could see how people were using They were using numerals 1 2 3 4 instead of you know letter names but they put it in a my my brain exploded when I learned about that too but I don’t think in the same way.

Garrett: Okay.

Tom: Well I could see that you know as a bass player I could see the the harmonic rhythm and that just harmonic rhythm is is where this is at for me because I having having played jazz for decades and rock and pop and especially as a bass player and a guitar player, you think in chunks, right? You think of, you know, the we do this chord for two measures, we do this chord for two measures, etc. So, I thought that was very useful, but I also thought it was a kind of niche, you know, Nashville thing. You know, it’s great for string players, but it’s not great for everybody. And then we we started shifting towards rock and pop. And I realized that there was no sheet music. So, I was doing this David Bowie tribute and I I didn’t have time to do traditional charts in at the at the time would be finale, rest in peace. I just opened a word document, cut and paste lyrics and started putting chords over it. As as I did it, I realized, wait, if I shift these things around, I can communicate more information. If if folks know that this is this these lyrics are a pickup into downbeat or there’s here, you know, we all go to Ultimate Guitar and we look at that stuff and because it’s userenerated charts, it’s not always reliable. So it’s a good place to start but not a good place to finish. And so over time I realized we need a strong resource. So I made these charts for this David Bowie tribute. That was 10 years ago. And then as our band shifted more towards pop and rock, my students would ask for things that weren’t on Ultimate Guitar yet or things that would come out during this year and they’d want to play it. So I just start getting in the habit of making these charts and and I got better at it over the years. It it has all the resources I think to put in front of any C player. I have made B flat and E flat charts for horn players when needed, which is also great. But if you have the traditional guitar, bass, and drums because the drummer can see the form and keys, you get playing really fast. You get up and running really fast and then you’re not having those arguments. You know, do we go to the chorus here? How many times do we do this? And I’ve also made charts on my profession gigs. I’m in a Grateful Dead cover band called Deadlicious and I’ve made charts for all the songs we do. And those guys in the band, they call different charts every gig. So, I have to be ready. I know I’m the square academic with a music stand in front of me. But, you know, rehearsal time, this is the big thing, Garrett. Rehearsal time is much more efficient with these charts because you’re not arguing about form.

Garrett: You know, no one wants to write anything down because it’s we live in a digital world. They think they can memorize it, you know.

Tom: And I’ve just found I’ve taken all my experiences having read music since I was three, having taught big bands and sort of converted that again ethos, that attitude into making charts that that you know, not only have the harmonic rhythm written out, but also the sections are labeled intro, verse one, chorus one. So you have having satin orchestras, we can say chorus 3 and everyone knows exactly where they are.

Garrett: So you’re you’re basically talking about a word document that has each section labeled and you have the lyrics and then above the lyrics is the chords that go with it.

Tom: It would look something a lot like this. This is Valerie, our number one seller. And so you can see that that here are the sections laid out. You know that you play the intro for eight bars and you know and I’m also using this my students call it the present sign, right? That do the last bar again and that helps you sort of see okay We do E flat for four bars and then again for four bars and then there’s verse one. And it it’s all pretty well laid out. And it’s amazing when I put this in front of people who’ve never seen before, they they they look at it a little strangely and then we start using it and then we’re up and running. We just playing and and and if we look at, you know, the chorus, there’s pre chorus, chorus one, verse two. So we can say, let’s go to verse two and and do it there. And it’s it’s just very economic. ical in rehearsals and and then you also have this as a resource. You don’t see your students or you don’t rehearse for a week. You come back to this. You you don’t have to, you know, listen to your phone and try to remember what it is. It’s all right there. You do internalize it and memorize it.

Garrett: So, obviously, this approach would require a fair amount of listening to the original recordings. So, how would you structure a rehearsal using that kind of a chart?

Tom: When I have my first rehearsal for the semester, I open my lap top and say, “Hey, hey students, what are we playing this semester?” And I get, you know, five and six suggestions. And that ends up being a list of like 40 or 50 tunes. And then we sort of see who’s really excited about what and then we pair it down. And so once you sort of have that big list coales into a smaller list, then you start listening to things. And then I select a song. If it’s a song I’ve already made a chart for, great. If it’s not, I go home and bring it to rehearsal the next time and I say to them, “Listen to this song.” And it’s amazing how much in popular music we’re already uh recalling from memory, right? It functions very differently than say classical or choirs or jazz bands. You may not have the same instrumentation every time you have a band, right? So, it’s great when you have a big band and you hand out all the charts to the trumpets, trombones, and saxopones and rhythm section and you have that. But what happens if you have something else, you know, like If you have instruments that are non-traditional, this allows one, yes, you’re using a lot of memory, but also it’s a little bit more, for lack of a better word, open source, and someone can come to it and bring what they know about their instrument. Like, I’ve seen beginner players and very advanced players play the same song together, and they’re playing very different things, but they’re looking at the same chart, right? And this comes from my background of not only big band direction, But having played in small groups, right? Like the real book that everyone uses when they learn combo stuff is is a lot like this, right? It’s it’s, you know, here are the chords. Here’s here’s here’s the melody. Instead of the melody, I have the lyrics. And most singers know the song. And singers have amazing recall. And they’re probably learning it, you know, off their phones or driving in their car. So yes, there is a ton of memory recall. Then what the chart does is it also helps structure that recall in a way that is useful. And then I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in rehearsal with students or with professionals where they argue, “No, we’re going to the chorus. No, we’re going to the bridge. We’re going to the course.” You know, and then I’m talking about when you’re really learning the tune. And when you have, you know, 30 tunes, that’s a lot of information to keep in your head. So, on one hand, you have all that memory recall. This is what this song sounds like, but man, it’s sure nice to have this sort of cheat sheet. seen people make tiny cheat sheets. You know, what I put on the top of the chart is is, you know, introvere, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, stuff like that that I’ve seen people put on little tiny pieces of paper. And that can sort of trigger the recall. But again, in rehearsal, it’s great when everyone can say, “Oh, I know we are. We are. We’re starting at chorus 2.” And then there’s a solo after chorus 2.

Garrett: Yeah. Well, I think this is self-explanatory when you’re working with players that are comfortable with their instruments, right? You can tell them, “Hey, go listen to this recording. Figure out some riffs that work at your skill level.” Okay. I think it’s a much different conversation if you, you know, if I’m a choir teacher who’s never played guitar and I want to start modern band because I believe in in all of the educational reasons behind it, but I don’t know how to help that. I don’t know how to help that student, you know? I don’t know. Like, it’s it’s a whole different set of terminology. It’s a whole different set of techniques and And it really depends on the song that you’re choosing to play, what kind of what kind of, you know, elements that they need to be able to incorporate into their playing. And so I I imagine that would be the challenge, right? If you have a, you know, if you have a young rhythm section and you want to play, you know, KISS or something, you know, and then it’s like, all right, well, how do I teach them the techniques they need to be able to recreate these sounds? Or is it more about improvising, which is a whole different basket of of challenges? Right. Is it when you’re teaching when you’re teaching young students, do you think it’s more important to get them used to the idea of improvising or teach them how to listen to something and recreate that in their own playing?

Tom: I think it’s most important to get them up and playing, whatever that means. And yes, different age groups and different levels are going to have different needs and challenges. I totally get that. But there, and I say this as a bass player, there is nothing Nothing better than a good groove. And so if you get any band, kindergarteners, college band, everything in between, lots of music has groove, but modern band, popular music in general is is groove dependent. But to play pop and rock, well, it has to be in the groove or what we call in jazz, the pocket. And so that’s where I start. Whether it’s kids strumming ukuleles or playing, you know, drums together. Once you get them together and trained, right, and in rhythm, you know, it’s that’s then it goes from there. Then the flower can really bloom. Then we can talk about what chords are we playing or we’re going to talk about, you know, what repertoire are we using. You start with you, they have one chord and two card chord tunes. So if you have kids that don’t know many chords, let’s start with those. But let’s play together. So it’s that playing together that we all love no matter the ensemble. Right.

Garrett: Right.

Tom: And so this idea of playing together is is what propels my teaching of how do I get this group of people to play together? Well, and then we can decide, are we going to do our own thing? Are we going to make it like the record? Are we going to do a mixture of the two? You know, you hear these terms approximation and scaffolding and things. like that. You know, I’ve used Moises to rip parts off a record and play against it as sort of a, you know, music minus one karaoke thing. But at the end of the day, I think it’s that magic of playing together, especially the music that is important to you. And so, if you look at that way, then it becomes very wide open. I know that can be scary for some people, but if for me, that is liberating because we’re just getting these kids to play together. And then you can look for resources is what are the chords, what is the baseline, what is the voicing on piano. But the beauty of these charts, it shows you what chords are played in the right order and when against what lyrics. So again, it’s maybe my decades of playing jazz where we have this sort of sketch that we then elaborate on, right? If that makes sense.

Garrett: Okay. For me, the connection to jazz band is an obvious one. Maybe it’s just cuz I’m a trombone player and that’s how is raised, right? Because there is there is a certain level of improvisation required of everyone and sort of making these decisions, you know, we’re going to repeat this section, you know, and that sort of thing. And jazz music typically follows song form. So, it’s, you know, related to popular music. But that brings up an interesting question to me, which is how do you define popular music? At what point does it become, you know, like the like the jazz standards now we think of that as oldtimey music, but in their day they were the popular music. So at what point does, you know, at what point does Ariana Grande, you know, get sent to jazz band? You could say that it’s an irrelevant question, but I think for administrators in particular, like they’re going to want to know how do you define popular music? What kind of music are you talking about? Is it a time period? Is it a specific genre? You know, I think if if you’re looking at it from a pedagogical standpoint, how do you define the types of music that you’re doing? And and is it more about the style? Is it more about the way it’s written or is it just about, you know, the popularity?

Tom: Oh my gosh, it’s so many things. It’s I think because it’s popular music, it’s about the popularity. This is something that is shared. You know, I think you know what I’m going for. I Garrett, I know exactly what you’re talking about. And you’re you’re talking to the to the right guy who has a brain who thinks about several questions at once. A lot of people are going to see the instruments first, right? They’re going to see the guitars, the amplifiers, the sound system. And having directed big bands, played in orchestras, done musicals, and all that stuff. And being an ethnomusicologist, I’m hyper aware of how these musics are different because they have different needs, when and where they’re done, what tech they use or don’t use, what is responsible, you know, what does the musician bring to the gig, what is the

Garrett: Yeah. Like a sound system is good example. Like not everyone has one and you’re going to need one to have these singers be loud enough to sing over the band. So that’s like one of the big things if you’re going to do a modern band, you’re going to have to invest in a sound system because you probably don’t have one unless you’re lucky enough to have one for your jazz band. But also, do you have enough guitars? You know, so I think from an administrator’s perspective is going to be about the gear. They’re going to be, okay, we’re going to have to buy this stuff. Are we going to maintain this stuff? Is it going to be stored correctly? Are we going to have to repair this stuff.

Tom: But from the teaching perspective and also the student perspective, it’s about playing together, about doing this music that that we’re familiar with. And not saying we can’t be familiar with Take the A Train or, you know, Beethoven’s night, but it’s probably not on the radio or at the grocery store when we walk in. I just watched Oklahoma with my kids for the first time, and Siri with a French on top is in it, and I could remember playing the Miles Davis recording for my wife in college and she giggled. She said, “That’s jazz, right?” Cuz in her mind it was Oklahoma. And so we have these things that move around, right? And jazz musicians use these great songs cuz they had great chords and great melodies and we get contraacts with How High the Moon and and Charlie Parker. But then I’m also very aware of what is popular music because as a Gen Xer, I see songs that I grew up with are slowly appearing on older stations. right, are listening in a very different way than certainly I did in buying records and and going to certain sections in the record store and listening to certain radio stations for certain reasons. It was a rock thing versus a a a pop thing. You know, I think we were so hyper aware in the 80s and 90s and even still in the 2000s of what music was and wasn’t and I’m this kind of person. The labeling of was used in record stores and on radio stations was much more part of our musical diet and and identity than I think it is now. These these kids are just listening to what pops up on TikTok and they either like it or don’t like it. And I think the greatest example of that is Dreams, right? This song from 1977 by Fleetwood Mac that just came back.

Garrett: Wasn’t it the one with the skater video? Am I mixing up with something else?

Tom: Yeah, I think it was Dreams. The guy who filmed himself skating and then everyone did the the copycat video of themselves skating without the music or or running up that hill by Kate Bush in Stranger Things. These songs that are really old. I mean, these songs are pushing half a century old. Students don’t care. They just like the sound the most. And if you look at the years, it’s all over the place, right? It’s everything from Foo Fighters to Ray Charles. This is I think people are just listening to music and liking it and and so and around about way to answer your question. What is modern band? Modern band is what it needs to be for the moment as far as the repertoire. That’s why I’m so repertoire crazy. I’m very interested in what people are playing and not play and why and making charts so they can play what they want to play. But I also can’t guess what what’s going to be popular. You know, it’s I I I go to festivals and I write down what students are playing. I hear band directors say, “I need a chart for this and I make it and I sell one copy or I sell 10 copies because other people want it too. So I think it’s something that’s evolving very organically and then so if we think about this okay let’s keep it student ccentric let’s keep it groove oriented cuz the top sellers in my catalog are R&B and disco and 80s music and specifically dance8s people want to move right and they want these iconic riffs. It’s really interesting what’s bubbling up. The kids want the guitar in the hand. They want to sing. I mean, think about all these television shows like The Voice and America’s Got Talent. Everyone wants to sing. So, I think if you capitalize on those things, people want to sing, people want to play together. People love guitars. Some people come with a piano background, they want to know what they do in the band, and you teach them. And, you know, the drummers just want to play. You know, people want to play together. So, I’m not saying that other ensembles don’t do that. Orchestras play together. Jazz bands play together, choirs sing together, but there is the barrier of needing to read traditional notation to do that too. So I think modern band being what it can be and what it needs to be. And I think modern band and popular music education being inclusive and having directed big bands and saying, “Okay, we’re going to play this chart.” Boom. It’s done. It’s really easy. And then we work on the chart. Same with orchestras and choirs, right? We have the chart. And so, but with with a band, you’re like, “Okay, Well, we want to do end of beginning. There’s no chart for that. And so I went away and wrote wrote one. And we were then were able to rehearse it like like another band. But then we also had to think, okay, how do we get that sound? We have the right synthesizer patch for that. And then that gets back to the gear again. So there are a lot of questions. So you really have to go in it with with a heart of of like a scientist on one hand and an explorer on the other. you know, how are we going to invent this thing that’s going to work? And then back to ethos, it’s also process, right? We we are really tinkering and putting this together. And yeah, we see a pedagogy arising out of it. But but at the at the center of it all is let’s figure this out together. So it’s, you know, it’s it’s one do-it-yourself, but DIY, it’s something I’ve done it seriously since I returned to the classroom in 22. I have learned so much in just the last four years. And I can see it being really wide of how much more is going to need to be learned as we do this. So I’m very excited about it because I became a teacher because you never have the same day twice. And now with Modern Band of Popular Music, you know, these set lists they put together, I could have never dreamed of, right? The band I direct at York College did everything from Bill Withers to Jaquai to a song from that Jamie Fox song from Rio. But that’s what they want. wanted to do and we figured out a way to make it work.

Garrett: Well, let’s wrap it up by talking about some of the different organizations that teachers need to be aware about. You mentioned music will what what else is there?

Tom: There’s APME, the Association for Popular Music Education, which has two conferences a year. I sit on the board. It has a conference next week in Miami and then in July in Italy. They always have a a US conference and as for the last three years I’ve had a European conference. In my mind, if you take Music Will and APME, if you think of Music Will is the K through 12 organization and APME is the higher ed organization and they’re both beginning to stretch towards each other over time, you get the real full picture. So, if you are a K through 12 person, start with with Little Kids Rock. If you are a higher ed person or like in a music ed program, reach out to APME. But you there is some overlap. That’s that’s how the organizations were founded. Um, and that’s kind of where just it’s in their DNA. The other thing is I am the founding president of APMENY, which is the statewide chapter of APME in New York State. We’re doing some exciting things because we are organizing uh and bringing more to our MEA in in New York. It’s called NISMA. It doesn’t have MEA in it, but it’s an MEA. It’s the New York State School Music Association. And last year, we had our first modern band showcase. right next to our honors. We’ll have a second one this year and we’re bringing more and more panels and presentations to the conference. So, the visibility and resources of popular music are increasing. But those are the really bigies. Music will APME and now APM is doing statewide chapters to interface with the MEAs. And I’ve been to like the New Jersey MEA and I’m always impressed with what other MEAs are doing with popular music.

Garrett: Sure. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show and walk us through this. Where can our listeners find you?

Tom: Go to drtomscharts.com to purchase charts. It’s just a landing page, but I I’m going to spend the summer expanding it and and you can email me there. I drop new charts every Tuesday. So, at least three charts are released every week. I’ve dropped 80 charts as of yesterday and I’ve had 150 sales, which is is growing. I I had a big big push at the beginning of the semester and of course it’s dying off. as as concerts are programmed. But by this summer, I hope to get the catalog to 100 before the Modern Band Summit, and I’ll be hosting a jam there with those charts. And then by the end of the year, I will be shooting for 200 charts so that it becomes this big library. They only cost $4.99 each. They have a chord and lyric version, and then a lyrics only version that your singers can look at. And yeah, that’s the best place to find me. And I’m always looking for suggestions of charts that people need.

Garrett: Awesome. Well, is pleasure meeting you and I appreciate you taking the time to explain this movement to us. So, wish you well and looking forward to what comes next.

Tom: Thank you so much, Garrett.